Every time I hear someone brag about getting a killer deal

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura) 01/16/2015 at 21:04 • Filed to: None

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By beating up the sales guy, all I can hear is how they stole someone livelihood. Sometimes we terrible car salesman make a little money, it's called commerce. Everyone is making money off of you. Quit trying to stick your hand in the salesman's pocket. That guy you just ran all over the floor for an extra $1000 off? Yeah, he's taking home a $100 mini for his time. And so much time has been wasted that he can't take another customer. Or better yet, you went in a half hour before closing, and his wife is asleep when he gets home. And he has to turn around and leave first thing in the morning to come back. For $100. Just be aware of these things. Don't buy at sticker, but fair is fair, on both sides of the desk, not just for you.

Kailand09 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:12

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while going crazy far and pushing hard is definitely not great, this is business. Any salesman, not just cars, will try to get as much money as he can out of people.

That guy who works his ass off to feed his kids and wants new reliable transportation to keep his and his wife getting to work? Yeah the one who unfortunately doesn't understand how to buy a car that we'll? Yeah the salesman will still take him for more than they guy should be paying.

It's a two way street and anyone can make a decent argument on either side. Sometimes one side does better business than the other.

Bricks > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:13

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By beating up the sales guy

Read that as literally beating up the sales guy, I now feel bad because I chuckled.

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:13

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I don't think a lot of people are going to feel bad about this.

Because it all balances out for the sales guy. For every Jalop who knows a lot about cars, their prices, financing, and how to negotiate there are 100 buyers who don't know shit about shit. A car salesman can't complain about the occasional Jalop taking up all his time just to make $100 when he makes good money off the common buyer.

For Sweden > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:15

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If you don't like the deal, don't make the sale.

Takuro Spirit > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:16

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There was a line in the movie Suckers that has always stuck with me:

"The salesman's job is to sell the car for as much as possible. The customer's job is to get the car as cheap as possible. Whoever is better at their job WINS."

Not verbatim, but it gets the point across. GREAT movie if you're in the industry BTW.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Kailand09 01/16/2015 at 21:24

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And yet, we're the ones who are openly berated to our faces.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 21:25

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Oh, it's not the Jalops. Its the people who don't understand how cars work, and just know that any price is an unfair price. See, there is no winning.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > For Sweden 01/16/2015 at 21:27

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Not our choice. You let a buyer walk, and you may get your leads cut off. And then, you'll have worked all those hours for nothing. Salesman don't get played by the hour man. Our time isn't worth anything, only our deals.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Takuro Spirit 01/16/2015 at 21:28

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My brother recommended it, but I haven't watched it yet.

For Sweden > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:28

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Then institute price controls or something, or work for Scion

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:29

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That's just how it is though with all sales

My company is in a different industry but we have to deal with all sorts of customers too

Some will haggle us to death even though they're not big

We still deal with it even if we're not going to make any money because we need references

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > For Sweden 01/16/2015 at 21:30

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You know the funny part? Before Scion did pure pricing, Saturn tried the same thing. But then people started haggling about it, and when dealers wouldn't play with them, they left.

DrJohannVegas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:31

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Bugeye, it sounds like you had a bad experience, and if that's the case, sorry to hear it.

But, when haggling is part of the sales experience, then it seems hollow to ask the buyer to leave money on the table. If there is enough slack in the prices that $1000 off is a possibility, maybe the general business strategy is the thing which needs to be called out.

I am guessing you don't run the show, but there it is. If the nature of the business is a problem, maybe a career change is in order.

One more thing: if someone berates you, that's BS. But, what "berate" means is is unclear to me.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 21:33

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I mean I take a mini, because otherwise our time is meaningless. But generally, at that point, youve made $100 for the whole day. Sometimes they haggle you almost all the way there, then walk after 4 hours and you're left with nothing. We get no hourly/salary.

WhatCarDoIEvenWant > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:34

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You've just described ALMOST every day in the aircraft maintenance. We're all doing what we can to provide what we can. "Sometimes you eat the bar, sometimes the bar eats you."

*Edited for hunger induced grouchiness.

DrJohannVegas > Takuro Spirit 01/16/2015 at 21:36

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I use that line as an opening example for a game theory concept when teaching. Really concise, really clear.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > DrJohannVegas 01/16/2015 at 21:36

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Do you know how often I hear "You're a car salesman, you'll say anything to sell a car" because I believe in what I'm selling? More than that, more often than not, I have customers tell me that at any price, I'm "ripping them off". Happens every day.

Kailand09 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:46

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You can't take it personally man. You can't expect a smart buyer to not do everything they can to try to get a lower price when everyone knows there's room for it.

The other issue is that the heavy majority of car salesman aren't like you (who I'm assuming is a car salesman). Having recently bought a car and shopped around a lot , I have been around the block very recently. That block was filled with people who knew less about their product than I did. This is OK, I'm an enthusiast. The problem is they barely knew anything at all, and are willing to say anything to get the sale, even if it is incorrect. Sometimes it is out of ignorance too.

Either way, a massive load of dill weeds have made a bad name for the profession. You can't expect, then, that every person who walks in that door won't immediately assume that any salesman will try to take them for a ride. And a good salesman will prove that they aren't that type of person, and then not worry as much about the money and end up getting better sales for their superior service and knowledge.

It sucks, but it's business.

Manuél Ferrari > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:47

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yeah it sucks

but you can't turn them away because they could lead to other business later. or them telling others you turned them away can lead to a bad reputation

Makoyouidiot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:49

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That 100 is more than I made today, so....

most oppos aren't gonna sympathize much, we've nearly all been screwed by a dealer.

DrJohannVegas > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:51

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So, in the same way you assume that every salesperson mentioned in the "killer deal" stories is a hardworking honest grinder, some buyers assume all salespeople are attempting to hide something. Generalizations are shitty. I am sure (because I've read some of your other posts) that you are one of the good ones, but there are unscrupulous ones out there, too, and that gives the job a reputation.

If you have data to demonstrate that you are giving a fair price, and share it with the buyer, I'd hope that would make a difference. Unfortunately, many auto sales interactions don't have that sort of frankness, in my (more limited) experience.

But, if you know those buyers (and I suspect many of them don't buy) are spewing trash, then brush it off. They don't know shit about you. How many of those people end up making a deal, and make a deal which is worth your time? You say that the leads dry up, but what kind of leads are they?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Kailand09 01/16/2015 at 21:56

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I do actually earn a lot more business on pre-owned cars because I know more than the average for used cars. Most UCS know three things: year, miles, and price.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Manuél Ferrari 01/16/2015 at 21:56

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All true.

I_AmDeath > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 21:57

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If they don't want to accept the deal that someone offered to them they can. It's not like a gun is held to their head.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Makoyouidiot 01/16/2015 at 21:57

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If you don't mind me asking, what do you do?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > DrJohannVegas 01/16/2015 at 21:59

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Internet leads. If you don't try to bash your customers over the head, it's assumed your a weak link.

Makoyouidiot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:00

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I don't mind at all. I'm an assistant manager at an O'Reilly Auto Parts in a small town.

themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:05

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It's worse than that. I hate it when people go "OH YOU DIDNT SCREAM UNTIL YOU GOT BELOW INVOICE?!?!?!?!" when I tell them they offered me a clear discount on the price and processed the factory offers quickly and easily so I "let them" have the 350 or whatever they make on fiestas....Maybe that's why only bad salesmen are left....

Kailand09 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:06

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Well and that helps, which is unfortunate for you as you aren't a complete incompetent jerk. But over time and with more references, I'd hope it pays off being one of the very few decent car salesman.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Makoyouidiot 01/16/2015 at 22:09

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Are you paid on commission as well? (And BTW, I made $0 this month until the 13th)

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > themanwithsauce - has as many vehicles as job titles 01/16/2015 at 22:10

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This. All day this.

TheBloody, Oppositelock lives on in our shitposts. > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:11

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Don't hate the player, hate the game. Sometimes you come out on top, and sometimes you don't. It comes with the job you chose.

I've seen plenty of salesmen brag about how great a sale they just landed.

If you hate what you do, maybe a change in scenery is in order?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Kailand09 01/16/2015 at 22:11

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Here's hoping. But to be honest its a very stressful gig. I'm looking at other opportunities at this time also...

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:15

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Amen. I used to sell Volvos, right? And I had this awful woman who wanted an XC70. I had some leftover 2012s, and the only other dealer nearby didn't. So we go through the whole thing and I give her a price that's just insane. Just no money for the car, I'm taking a mini ($75!) and she's paying cash. She talks to the other dealer, who tells her I should be selling her the car for several thousand dollars less. I couldn't make her understand that no shit he's telling you that, because HE DOESN'T HAVE THE CAR.

This dumb jerk wasted my time for 3 hours on a Saturday and two more days during the week and wouldn't take the absurd deal because somebody else's lie was more convincing than my truth.

jariten1781 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:22

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I feel ya, but having been on both sides it's the sales people who come out ahead in most deals. 90% of the folks who brag about taking a sales guy for a ride are probably the ones who actually got snowballed hardest.

I hated the profession because it forces adversarial relationships. It didn't get any better now that I'm working large contracts except the stakes are that much higher. A few years ago it was win with my bid and get a (ended up being 35k) bonus or file for unemployment 2 weeks before Christmas (12 other people would have got their walking papers as well). You can bet the customer felt no sympathy, bled me for every drop and we're still feeling it today.

Let it roll off and get the next sale. It's all you can do unless you want to get out of the industry.

Best of luck

Cowboy behind the wheel > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:25

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You can't complain about a salesman's time being wasted or how late he had to work when they play the bullshit "let me talk to my manager" game and waste everyone's time.

Makoyouidiot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:29

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Negative. I do get commission, but it is a VERY small part of my check, even more so since I got promoted to assistant and went to working nights. Heck, the bump from $9.25 to $10 an hour was almost offset completely by the drop in my sales, and the corresponding drop in my commission.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 01/16/2015 at 22:31

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Competition who become sore losers are the worst. I took a mini today because some dealership 1.5 hours away gave my customer a ridiculous price, knowing that she wouldn't make the drive.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > jariten1781 01/16/2015 at 22:33

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Thanks bro. I'm sorry to hear about the sour deal.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Cowboy behind the wheel 01/16/2015 at 22:34

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This isn't the 80s. We're nothing. Every single decision does have to come from the manager. I have no idea what kind of markup they have in the cars.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Makoyouidiot 01/16/2015 at 22:35

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Then how did you make nothing today? O.o I'm confuzzled

M54B30 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 22:44

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money is important to me BUT:

1) i don't want to waste my time trying to get the price down a few hundred or a thousand dollars. This is especially obvious when you realize the $1,000 you argued over for an hour spread out over 5 years is what - $10ish a month?

2) i live in a fairly small town (70k people) but its the 2nd biggest in the state. I dont want to be remembered as "that guy" who acted like a cheapskate at the dealership over a few hundred dollars. If im paying $45k on a minivan, a few hundred my way or your way is whatever. I probably just cannot wait to be done in your office.

I honestly would love to just pay a negotiator to in on mybehalf and tell them i was approved for "xyz" amount on a loan. Whatever you get the price under that amount, ill split it 50/50 or $500 - whatever is more. I just want a call to come in and sign the paperwork

Makoyouidiot > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/16/2015 at 23:07

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If you reread my post, I said that the 100 is more than I made today.

RallyWrench > WhatCarDoIEvenWant 01/17/2015 at 00:42

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He also described every day at the counter of an automotive repair shop. I sense a theme here...

WhatCarDoIEvenWant > RallyWrench 01/17/2015 at 00:49

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It's almost as if everybody has bad days where people try to screw them.

WhatCarDoIEvenWant > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/17/2015 at 01:12

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I feel you on the negative image. I'm actually engaged in what has this far been a very pleasant car buying (hopefully, we're not finished yet) process and while I've always been sympathetic to the plight of the salesman, this team has really made me feel more accepting of the people within the profession.

RallyWrench > WhatCarDoIEvenWant 01/17/2015 at 01:38

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Yep. And there are bad actors in any trade that make the good guys look bad. Some industries more than others, and the internet has changed things. Right now, for less. Why isn't it done yet, why is it expensive?

I can't afford to match internet parts prices. No, I won't warranty your internet parts. No, there isn't a discount just for showing up. Your machine is broken, I'm not making it up, it's not my fault, I can prove it to you, stop busting my chops for being honest. It's just constant second guessing.

In your industry, we had a guy recently ( who was a customer of mine with his BMW) crash his plane & die because (I'm told) he ignored the advice of local techs who told him he was losing an engine & apparently didn't like that answer or price. He tried to fly the plane elsewhere, lost 1 on takeoff, and augered into a FedEx truck in an industrial park.

It happens to us all, but I think automotive & I'm sure aircraft sales & repair are among the worst because of the money involved. People are rightfully concerned about getting value for significant dollar outlay, but it's tinged with animosity & assumptions on the part of the consumer, before the interaction even begins. They go into it thinking they're being screwed because it's not free. There aren't enough rational, understanding customers to mitigate the feeling of being beat up at the end of the day, so I understand where the OP is coming from.

/rant. Here's to the weekend!

WhatCarDoIEvenWant > RallyWrench 01/17/2015 at 01:56

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I couldn't have phrased that any better myself. Hopefully I'll be getting home soon and I'll be able to get my weekend started with ya!

RallyWrench > WhatCarDoIEvenWant 01/17/2015 at 01:58

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Cheers to that, man!

petebmwm > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/17/2015 at 10:07

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It's a balancing act, know what you have in front of you and cut to the chase quick, dont spend a ton of time, if they're more interested in the car, they can justify the money, if they're counting pennies, spend less time on the car... ask whats important to them first, find out what they hope to accomplish and drill down on that. If they're cheap, show them a cheap car, let them sell themselves on equipment. If they want all the equipment, they already know it'll be more expensive. Ask how they bought their last car, how much it was, and what they're paying as well as how much they put down last time. that alone will tell you what you need to know, and let you explain to them why they cant be 350 a month like they are now, because they aren't giving you 3000 down like they did on their last car, and their last car was 10000 dollars less than the current car their looking at. just an example.

BZiel > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 01/17/2015 at 12:54

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As of a few months ago, I purchased an interest a small interest in a used car sales operation, and, as someone with a couple of decades of marketing experience, I will add these thoughts: I would rather sell 20 cars a month and put a $100 commission in my pocket for each one, give my customers a good experience and a great deal, and have THEM become my best advertising and lead generation channel, than to burn a customer for an extra thousand dollars and have pissed customers become my worst marketing nightmare. Nothing, and I mean nothing, will kill a car dealership or a car salesman's career quicker than customers who have been burned by them.

Over time, those little $100 payouts can translate into some huge, long-term cash flow in car sales.

I know a used car dealer who has built one of the largest "buy here/pay here" networks in the southeastern US over the past 30 years. He built it from a single car lot in a town of less than 8,000 people to now over 50 locations across six states and is taking in approximately $20 million A MONTH in payments on over 120,000 active accounts. He told me about a year ago that even if he only made a $200 TOTAL PROFIT on a car deal, that if that customer was happy and felt like he had helped them (whether reestablishing credit, getting them a better car, good deal, etc), that that customer was worth at least an additional $1000 in free advertising, probably their future business, and usually at least two new customers. Not a bad plan, and it's definitely worked for him.

Anyhow, just wanted to float these thoughts by you.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > BZiel 01/17/2015 at 14:01

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I definitely would be down for that idea. I can dig it.